Changes to Dungeons.



  • I have only played two hours of this game. I have to say that I love the concept of the PUB to join a party. The game is awesome with a lot of potential.

    Now, I would like to suggest a few things to dungeons and tell my feedback on the combat system.

    Dungeons:
    *The dungeons are simple in an overall view. I hear there is about 5-20 floors per dungeon. That is a really long and tedious task, running through stand-in-place mobs. I only got to level 6, and played two dungeons so far. Nothing stood our for me within my two hours of game-play. Which leads to suggest these items, for a more immersive and incentive game-play.
    *AI could be improved with idle-life, and some meaning behind them staying in a dungeon. There is no real content to the creatures within a dungeon. You guys should implement stories and background that encourages exploration in these dungeons. These could be implemented through communications with creatures, or notes that tell them to do a task or something as to why they are there. The feeling I get right now is tedious and rince-and-repeat floors.
    *Traps. I have only encountered fire-floor traps. Which is generic, but a must have. I would like to see a lot of unique traps and something so creative and out of this world to immerse me into these dungeons. This is a high goal, but I have a few I would like to suggest if you guys would like to hear me out.
    *Looting! The thing I dislike the most is looting, next to hit-boxes. Looting in this game is completely unappealing. I want to see what loot there is to grab, and I want to know what I can make or use the items for. There just seems to be a ton of items to loot with no purpose, because I have no clue what use it has. I need more information, and details.

    Combat:
    Again I have only played the rogue class. So, I have experienced some range and melee.
    *Hit-Boxes. I am annoyed by the fact that I have to get next to the target, for example I have to move up to my opponent until I have collided with them to register a hit. The Hit-Box is poor. I am not sure if it is me registering a hit, or that I am actually not in range to hit a creature. It feels like I am close enough to register a hit while my weapon flings at them. This is the biggest improvement I think the game needs. I want to enjoy my combat experience. I do appreciate the actual projectile arcs of throwing knives, and how this game is a real action combat game.
    *Solo. Playing as a rogue, the monsters de-aggro and replenish their health when I stealth. Stealth seems only useful at the beginning of a fight, or with a party. It would be nice to have the enemies not reset after using stealth.
    *Aggro range. Why is there an aggro range? The game is instanced and if anything there should be a search feature for creatures when players are out of sight. Resetting health and aggro is more for MMO games that are open-world. Being able to kite a creature makes instanced games enjoyable, because the players are able to use their full potential.

    I have some more suggestions, but I just want to wait for the next patch and see what will become of the game. I hope that you guys take my suggestions into consideration and implement some of them. The slice-of-life with the improved AI would be a unique feature with a lot of appealing immersion. Combat hit-boxes are a much needed improvement, because most of game time is spent in combat and exploration from dungeon crawls. I am hoping for the best, and good luck.


  • administrators

    Thanks for the feedback, glad that you like it so far. We are definitely are working on the game still and have some improvements planed, but we love hearing what you guys want as it does help shape what we do in the game.

    We are working on new AI for many of the mobs in the game. Right now their AI is limited to notice the player, attack the player, rinse and repeat. We plan on adding more complex movement, mobs that will run away, not just moving in a straight line, and an improvement on how they react to the stealth mechanic, and a few other goodies to boot.
    Aside from the fire trap, there are also pit traps, pendulum traps, and poison dart traps. We hope to be able to add more traps in the future, but they are much more complex than they seem. We would love to hear some ideas you might have cause we love getting more inspiration.
    Looting has been an issue of balance we have gone back and forth about for a while, and wanted to make it so that looting a body would not heavily interfere with the fast pace of combat. With that, there is a loot stone that you can by from the imp in town, Zzyzx, to help you loot faster. We will look into putting more information in about what items you pick up can be used for so there is less potential confusion.

    We are planning on a fairly large overhaul of our item system and with that it will change the stats and use of many weapons. It should help to better represent the distance you need to be away from to hit a target and help it feel smoother and more natural.
    As far as the issue with agro range, we do plan on adding a lot more to the overworld for players to explore and the mobs inside and out will follow the same basic AI so that mechanic is not likely to change much.

    Let us know if you have any other suggestions as we love getting feedback from you guys in any way. Being a smaller studio we have a unique opportunity to see feedback and implement much of what we hear back from the players about. Thanks for your support!



  • Thanks for the response. I have played a few more hours since my first 2 hours in game. So, I have a question about the aggro range since you plan to keep it. I can see that without it, players can just cheat through mechanics of the game. For example, they could attack from a distance on a platform that the npc can not reach, so npc melee can not do anything about it. However, I think to give that relief to players may not be such a bad idea. Instead give the npc range abilities to counteract that, or pull-abilities. I have also noticed the rope swing from the archer, and the rogue's stealth will reset aggro. What's the plan for that? Because I can see a few options, one is to escape the fight. The other is to recoup through kiting*, or taking some time to wait off ability cool downs playing a strategic role. However, you did say that you are working on better AI. I like to use these abilities strategically in combat, and jumping back into the fray when I have composure. Can you give me and anyone else, some insight on what you plan for the aggro system's future plans for those abilities?

    I have noticed the deadly fall from caves, that feel like they are worst than puddles of lava. The environment is amusing, and the music gives a vibe that is sort of creepy. There is that one music from the lower levels that has sound of footsteps, but it was not necessary. There were only spiders and rats, so it did not make much sense. Also if it were to really scare a person, the dungeons would need something like patrolling creatures that attack in hallways. This will definitely keep players on their feet. I have also noticed a few more traps, and I am liking it. The swinging axes are a nice touch. Seems like the game is especially inspired by Elder Scrolls, and Dungeons and Dragons.

    I have been ranting on about the small stuff, but it makes the whole immersion for newbies such as myself appealing. I want to love the feel of the game at first sight, and tell my friends because the game has potential. A lot of games worry about the "big picture", contents, maps, etc... that they forget about the quality of life. So, after years of programming they ignore the small features that can make a player feel at ease about staying a while.

    Do you have plans to improve melee combat?
    I made an Orc champion and was using daggers, because they were best I could find. I had to swing/stab so many more times at bats, rats, and young wolves than I do at adult wolves and bears. I was missing so much at close-quarters, it was tearing my love for the game apart. I have noticed that bats dodge back, and wolves dodging behind the player. These are cool mechanics, and I would love to see more of these with the humanoid bosses rather than an essential "Incredible Hulk" fight. Although, I mentioned these they are not the problems I have with melee's hit range, or npc's hit-boxes. It is that when I swing in front of their face, it does not register a hit.

    Would you take on a 1 boss per dungeon, and an endless dungeon option?
    I have played in dungeons for over 30 minutes to no end, and have not completed any dungeons. It is nice, but I would like to take breaks at the tavern.


  • administrators

    Part of the revamp to the AI will be issues like agro range and how the AI responds to players in unaccessible locations. We plan on giving many of the melee mobs some sort of limited ranged attack or the ability to reach to the player with varied abilities the are like leap. We will be testing this heavily as we go to make sure that it work like we envision and is fun as well.

    I agree with you in that the devil is in the details and we appreciate the feedback that helps keeps us looking at those areas more closely. Like you said, it is easy to get caught up in the large pieces. And yes, this game has a lot of inspiration from old school Dungeons and Dragons.

    As far as melee combat, we do have a lot planned for that. We are in the process of a massive item revamp that a small part of it will be the look and feel of how the attacks resolve, such as the distance to hit, the speed of the weapon, and the swing arc. We hope to hear a lot from you guys about that once we get it done and finish internal testing.

    I do like the idea of an endless dungeon, though the random crypt can feel like that at time seeing that it has 20 floors and is our oldest dungeon. Most dungeons are 10 floors with the first cave dungeons you can do at 6 floors each. We will likely be sticking with 1 boss per 2 floors to act as a sort of challenge gate for players to overcome as once the AI is better finished, it should prove to be a fun challenge for players to overcome before moving on in the dungeons.



  • That is fantastic to know you guys are currently working on these changes. I can not wait to try out the re-vamp build.


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