Build Customization

  • I think it's become evident that K&H is severely lacking when it comes to Build Customization with classes all being carbon copies of each other. The community has kicked around some ideas about build customization, ranging from full on talent trees, skill augmentations, or class branching. I would like to start collecting our ideas towards this so that John and Warren have something to start kicking around. I'll start with breaking it out into different build customization systems and we can expand upon it from there.

    Talent Tree
    Typical talent tree setup found in most mmos.

    Skill Augmentation
    A way for players to choose specializations and effects on their existing skills.

    Class Branching
    The ability for a player to specialize their class once reaching max level.

    If you want to propose a different major system, please add that as well, but I believe most build customization falls into one or more of these categories.

  • Agree that it would augment current play and that those buckets capture the big categories. Lots of pros and cons for each one, highly dependent on what they do with itemization and future content.

  • @Mbenu
    I agree on the itemization point you brought up, and I would be worried that they would get too far down the itemization path before considering any kind of build customization. Those two systems seem to go hand-in-hand. For example, in the case of Class Branching, you may find Clerics having a melee branch, which would require items that are more focused around a melee oriented spell power type of design.

    Everything right now is very bland. All classes are the same, and gear is just a collection of generic stats with nothing special going on.

  • @Trup

    Glad that you are bringing it up for consideration as I agree that it could limit future possibilities.

    I see it as more of an option for when you reach max level. But can also see it improving the road up to 50 if other changes are made. A branch to make it easier to solo the low-mid levels might make the game play nicer for some.

  • @Mbenu

    Yeah, I don't know what's going on with them to be honest. I'm responsible for a fairly large development team, larger than all of IG anyway, and it seems like there is very little strategic design and planning going on. Everything seems to be developed in it's own little silo without regard to any kind of long term design goal.

    To your point though, I think its much easier to do any kind of build customization at max level than it is trying to work it into the leveling system.

  • @Trup

    Funny that you and I are here... still. I drive equity and portfolio strategy for a $3B global brand with products that sometimes take 10+ years to launch. So I get long term planning as well as hiccups in delivery and readiness.... as well as silos. The silos get handed to me to sort out...

    I don't work in IT, gaming or entertainment, so here I try to be forgiving (of the developers, not the peeps on the other board...) and blame my own lack of understanding. It is more palatable for my entertainment needs :)

  • I'd prefer an option to change the skill tree (ie. Skyrim or D3 paragon) based on task rather than having it hard and permanent (ie BDO).

  • So you mean augmenting each individual skill a class has, or more overall changes to types of skills, i.e. melee, spells, defense, etc.

  • And if they added in a generic paragon system like D3 tomorrow, I'd be back playing daily like I was before.

  • @Trup said in Build Customization:

    So you mean augmenting each individual skill a class has, or more overall changes to types of skills, i.e. melee, spells, defense, etc.

    I meant that some games allow you to change your skill tree... sometimes with a task or by making a payment of some sort. In other games the skills are permanent once selected.

    I want the option to adjust if I'm playing solo or playing in a group. Or going against an UBER boss. I don't want to have to make another character for each of those situations.


    In its current form, I don't think a skill tree is needed for KnHs. My ask above will likely be handled by itemization if they make sets like you've suggested and/or as are in D3.

    Only if the new content is substantially harder and different are skill trees needed to specialize. And with the focus on group play vs. solo, specialization (ie. further limiting classes as jack-of-all-trades) should be built in as base skills/stats.

    And the skill system needs to be co-designed with the content to give it a reason for being.

  • Class changes from sets would be interesting. I don't really need some super complex progression system after 50, but something simple like a paragon system would give me a reason to keep playing between updates. This morning I spent about an hour messing around in Lava and all I really had to show for my time was 80 blacksteel bars a few more platinum, not that I need more of it.

  • Yes i agree. I need a reason to play between updates. And i strongly feel you guys are on to something. Also i feel i need a reason to enter the other dungeons like crypt or caves. A skill tree will allow me to do other dungeons or at this point any dungeon besides helping people out.

  • Yeah, they could do something like Skyforge with the colored orbs, and make certain colors have increased drop % in certain dungeons.

  • @Trup said in Build Customization:

    but something simple like a paragon system would give me a reason to keep playing between updates.

    Without torment levels 1-13, paragon levels won't mean much. That is why content needs to sync with builds or skill trees.

    And without achievements or badges or quests, torment levels 5-13 get pretty stale...

  • Well they can make better loot. Scaling the loot beyond just normal or ancient would work well. And it shouldn't be hard for them to make Insane +X to compensate. They could roll them out incrementally like a fake content update, where you had a new difficulty of Crypts that dropped higher ilvl gear.

  • @Trup


  • doesn't seem to make sense given all the points on the other discussion thread on progression ideas (under Feedback).

    anything that forces specialization will limit solo-ability.

  • How about Subclasses and Archtypes? Would that give us another option for variety? replay value? cater to more play styles?

  • @Paladine i like this idea. It would create a bunch of new classes with the existing ones. That would be cool.
    You would be able to creat that paladine u seek.

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